Question on Stu's method for wire pull gag blood effects?

Indeed, Gage has done so much already, the honor should be his.

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	Indeed, Gage has done so much already, the honor should be his.

Ok...Smackey.... you handle scheduling and calls for my feature....

j96.... you've got the casting, fight training, screenwriter meetings....

....and smack... I guess yu get to meet with the makeup artists.

Then, I might, I just might have the time.

(I'm in way over my head. I'm sure I'll make the time, though. Who needs sleep.)

The only problem is my test subject will be asleep while I'm doing all this. Is there a law against rigging up the chest of a female non-spouse, while she is sleeping, with a blood bag and then yank a button through it?

Legal or not, sounds like fun. Just put a blanket in the doghouse for me. (She goes to bed between 8 and 9. Not much time for participating in my shananagans.)

Last edited by Gage on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:14 am; edited 1 time in total

Would hot glue work? That stuff sticks to anything!

Hot glue would probably melt the bag. I was thinking you could seal the hole for the monofilament with a blob of vaseline on the inside between the button and the bag. The "blood" wouldn't dissolve it because it isn't water soluble.

Arthur

Back reporting in...Just rigged up a blood pack everything looked good I bought expoxy and used that for the button to ziplock... It stuck but apparently not hard enough. I had my dvx rolling and everything and all that happend was the button got ripped off and didnt even puncutre the bag. So maye putting the button in the bag and some how rigging that up is the way to go. I did however try out some shooting on black for compositing in AE for blood burst we will see how that turns out...I guess I better go to bed now.

FAILURE!!!

Last night I rigged my bag. Silicone was the basis for it - I think I should has just gotten out the epoxy. My silicone was an open tube, 4 years old, and it never actually set up. It remained gooey.

Attached the line, button, blah blah blah and failure. The line I used was 8lb "jewelry" monofiliment. For cheap little bracelets and such. It was all I had laying around the house. That broke. The silicone didnt seal. Just a big failure.

I will pick up stronger line and a bigger button. I also think celophane type bags will break easier. I'll figure this out.

ALSO.... just so you know, I HATE this whole thing. While I understand that the viewing publec expects to see a particular thing (an exploding squib shooting blood when the fellow is shot) this is just so unrealistic, and in my eyes, unneccesary. I prefer editing, and not using an effect that blows out, but thet slowly soaks the shirt from a single spot (bullet hole).

That doesnt change the fact that I WILL figure this thing out; I will just never use it.

NEW LINK FOR FAILED TEST:

Last edited by Gage on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:15 am; edited 2 times in total

One note—monofilament is kind of a myth. Sure it's "clear," but really it's more shiny, and therefor shows up brightly on film/video thanks to lights glinting off it. Suture thread, however, is strong as heck and matte black, which means it disappears when motion blurred. Plus you're going to paint it out anyway.

-Stu

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And where, kind sir, do we get suture thread?

Last edited by Gage on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total

I got mine at Axe Man surplus in Minneapolis. While I totally recommend that you go there for numerous reasons, if you're in a hurry it seems to be a very Googlable thing.

-Stu

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Quote:

We don't believe in UPC codes- the apocalyptic "mark of the beast" for the Nineties. We believe customers like to touch merchandise that's not wrapped in bubble packs and laminated cardstock. When you come into our stores, we encourage you to browse around, read our signs, dig through our leather scraps bin, hunt for a vacuum tube for that old radio, and just have a good time! So if you're in for a shopping experience, or just in the Twin Cities, pay us a visit!

I dont have time for that!!

On the other hand, who doesn't have time for this:

(always time for Teddy Ruxpin)

Looks like a fun and interesting place.

Last edited by Gage on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total

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Last edited by Gage on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:16 am; edited 3 times in total

Here's the thing. I dont believe the wire pull blood bag thing is even possible. I have tried CA glue, silicone, and epoxy. I have searched plastic glue manufacturers online who say that the materials that bag - ALL bags - are made of can not be glues. CANT. I've tried several different methods, several different bloods and several different wires. I spent $65 just yesterday trying this and that doesnt include my previous two attempts.

The button CANNOT be glued to the front of the bag with any security that will allow it to be pulled - RIPPED - off in order to allow a burst and flow of blood. You can ATTACH the button, but it will peel right off as there is no BOND. The next idea was to put the wire THROUGH the bag and attach the button to the BACK of the bag and pull it through. I think this is superior in theory in every way - pulling the button THROUGH the bag/blood, but then we have two holes in the bag that we need to seal. It shouldn't be that hard, but again, since nothing bonds, any sealing material is just lightly adhered and doesnt plug the hole. Silicone didnt, epoxy didnt. Polyethylene and polypropylene bags/plastic are even used as liners and drop sheets when using glue as the glue will not eat through or adhere to the plastic.

On top of all that, bags are just WAY too strong. There is really no way that button would pull through without bag scoring, and then we have the leakage problem again.

I just dont believe this is possible.

Then there is how it SHOULD be done - if at all.

Air. Either a garden sprayer or air compressor. That's it and very simple. Would have cost me the same amount as I spent this weekend, and that includes buying an air compressor. While I have these, I both didnt have them on hand and just wanted to be done with this blasted project, so I cheated. I rigged a $10 syringe to a $4 piece of surgical tube and rigged that. Just quickly pressed the plunger. I would consider this the THIRD best way behind air compressor, then sprayer. Wire pull bag thing doesnt even make the long list.

If you can do it, I'd love to see. I just dont believe it can be done. At least not in a usable manner. (Both times I could have had a "completed" effect, but neither would have been real world/film usable.)

Good luck.

Last edited by Gage on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total

I cant believe I didnt think of this yesterday.

A freakin CONDOM! The cheaper the better. How retarded. I guess the fact that a condom is what is actually used for squib hits just escaped me. CA glue will bond to it. Done and done.

If anyone has the time, do the condom thing and claim your swag. I'm done.

(I still have to add that I think the whole wire pull thing is the wrong direction to go.)

Last edited by Gage on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:17 am; edited 1 time in total

I'd be inclined to agree on the blood pump versus the blood bag. On the no budget fx website (it's an angelfire address, you'd have to google it), they recommend condoms or balloons. Seems the balloons would be too stretchy, but condoms might work fine.

woaw!
how come i missed tis tutorial? This should be sticky or something.

Well done Gage. And btw, nice hand

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