Rebel T2i

	bzudo wrote:
	Can this thing shoot 720p at 24fps?

Looks like the 720p is limited to 60 and 50 fps. But who cares, when you have 1080p at 24fps?

Downsampling its 1080 to 720 rather then shooting in 720 will look better anyway, because of the sampling issues.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&tabact=ModelTechSpecsTabAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=19943

- Jonas

I bought a 7d last weekend after mulling over it and the 500d for ages. Decided I really needed the extra Video functionality of the 7d so bought it. 2 days later got an email from Jessops about the release of the 550D. I have to say I was like hitler in the previous youtube link. Fortunately, Jessops were happy to refund my money for the 7d, and I will be picking up my 550D as soon as they get it. Smile

I bought better lenses with the difference. Really looking forward to taking it for a spin.

I'm so getting one of these. Smile

(PS: yeah, I know; I've been gone for a while. I hope to be around more though)

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Is this camera better than the hv30/40?
What are the cons?

"Better" is pretty broad. It has advantages & disadvantages when compared the HV30/40 (or any video camera for that matter). Here's a short list of pros & cons off the top of my head:

7D/T2i: larger sensor - good for shallow DOF and low light capabilities.
HV: small sensor - good for deep focus

7D/T2i: large removable lens assortment - great for ultimate flexibility, but can be very costly
HV: fixed lens with power zoom & auto-focus - a decent fast lens with powered zoom and on the fly autofocus.

7D/T2i - fixed, 3" non-adjustable LCD - adequate, but not great for video work. you'll probably need/want a loupe.
HV: Flip-out adjustable 4.3" LCD - very handy & flexible for low/high angle shots

7D/T2i: Tiny built-in mono-mic & single 1/8" stereo audio jack input - no manual control on audio at present
HV: Built-in stereo mic & single 1/8" stereo audio jack input - rudimentary manual control

7D/T2i: True 24P with no pulldown / 30P/ 60P (at 720P) - wrapped in a heavy H264 codec
HV: 24P wrapped in a 60i HDV codec (not true 1080P res) / 30P / 60i

Again, that's what I could come up with on the fly. So given this information YOU will have to decide which is better. Smile

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Filmmaker Redux
twitter: "bozfx"

Is video coming out of the HDMI port on the T2i compressed?

I remember the cool thing about the HV20's (and now the HV30's and HV40's) is that the output from their HDMI is not compressed, and if you feed it into a Blackmagic card, you could get pre-compressed 1080p video. I've done it myself for greenscreen work and it's awesome for that.

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www.Argonaut-Ent.com

	Boz wrote:
	7D/T2i: larger sensor - good for shallow DOF and low light capabilities. HV: small sensor - good for deep focus

Just want to add, without disagreeing with any of your information, that 7D/T2i also have the deep focus capability, as you have control over the aperture. Smile

I'm getting one. I would have bought the 7d but I was on a feature shoot for the last month (with a GH1 btw, which performed very well). Unless it turns out that the t2i completely falls apart when shooting video I'l happily use the money on tripods, monitor etc. The main differences between the 7d and t2i are:

- SD card instead of compact flash; less durable and reliable, though on the plus side you can use an eye-fi and dump wirelessly to a laptop
- lower build quality - the body is plastic rather than magnesium alloy, so it won't last as well, and the mirror mechanism is only rated for 50k shots rather than 100k...which is irrelevant for video
- simpler and less powerful autofocus system (but you can autofocus during video with the t2i, which might be handy)
- fewer continuous still shots

Basically the compromises are sticking points for professional still photographers. It might be that the 7d's video could improve thanks to firmware upgrades (eg maybe it's powerful enough to dump Canon's new MXF 4:2:2 format to CF with a firmware upgrade...that'd justify the price difference straight away, as would a better algorithm than line-skipping with the inevitable aliasing), and it's true that it's not the exact same sensor, so we might find that dynamic range or low-light performance is not quite as good as that of the 7d when it comes out and people are shooting tests.

But I like what I've seen so far, it's full manual, and the $800 price tag can't be argued with. I'm really surprised they didn't limit it to 720 or 30p or something; instead it has the same data rate as the 7d. It's the new entry point, without a doubt. The only reason I'd consider adding a HV-x0 would be as a b-cam and for reasonable quality behind-the-scenes footage.

To be honest, if it had been a 60d for $1000-1200 rather than a T2i I would seriously have considered that too. My value-for-money meter goes into the red based on the price of a used DVX100: what I want out of a video camera is to be able to lock ISO, aperture and shutter, and have manual control over focal depth, followed by a big enough sensor to offer said focal depth and perform well in low light. I could never buy into the HV series as a main camera due to the lack of a proper focus ring - adding a 35mm adapter made it too expensive both economically and ergonomically. Interchangeable lenses are frankly a bonus and I can accept the lack of 'pure' video resolution from the still photo-optimized CMOS sensors. Audio input etc is irrelevant to me, I started out recording audio for film so doing it outside the camera and syncing it later is not that big a deal for me.

I'm still into buying a fixed-lens Scarlet and that kick-ass monitor thing with the built-in focus that Red are proposing to bing to market...but that platform means dropping $6-7500 and a six-month wait at the minimum. I would greatly prefer to put that money into producing a few short films starting next month and using the results to snag 5 figures for a small feature, by which time the Scarlet might be available.

what do you mean your "value meter goes into the red when compared to a used dvx-100"? are you saying, that if you're going to spend that kind of money you'd rather purchase a dvx-100?

	anigbrowl wrote:
	though on the plus side you can use an eye-fi and dump wirelessly to a laptop

Sounds neat... can you elaborate on that? What format will be streamed through the wireless, the same h264 as would be stored on the flash?

Thanks,
- Jonas

Also, if i might add to the excellent post by Boz on pros/cons, the HV can record with no pauses as long as you got tape for, while the 550d has a 12 minute limit per clip, if i understand it correctly.

Not impossible to work around, especially if you're shooting movies, but important to keep it in mind if you plan on doing interviews, documentaries or events with it.

	bzudo wrote:
	what do you mean your "value meter goes into the red when compared to a used dvx-100"? are you saying, that if you're going to spend that kind of money you'd rather purchase a dvx-100?

Not exactly, rather that for the price of a used DVX, any camera has to offer the same degree of manual image control (that made the DVX good for a film look).

Jussing yes, the exact same files. The T2i has firmware built in to handle this card, eg it can be set to not switch off until xfer is complete. But be aware that wireless speeds means maybe 24 min to transfer 8gb of video. to make this work you probably need to go down the route of adding a battery grip and having a lot of AAs or rechargeables. anyway, head over to http://www.eye.fi/ and check out the pro x2. You can then upload directly to a wireless, or they sell these hard disks with a little wi-fi router built in. So as long as you're ready tow ork with batteries or some sort of portable power solution, you can be backing up your data on the fly, reducing wear and tear on the physical card.

Mind you I also think Canon's EOS utility is a fairly good monitoring solution if you're going to have a laptop around anyway, and transferring via USB is that much faster again - usually the tethering is not too inconvenient.

I have it. Very Happy

After initial tests, I'm loving it. Just the feeling of finally having a full HD cam with great lens capabilities is simply awesome.

I tried out the full HD using a Canon f1.8 lens, to try out the shallow DOF, and I love the look of it.

I didn't do anything yet to provoke sampling or jello issues, but I'll have to test it out.

The compression of the H264 is so far the biggest issue. It may be *able* to shoot in low-light conditions due to the advances in DSLR ISOs, but it's not pretty. The more light, the better the picture (no surprise, I know).

The "great" thing about the sampling issue is that unlike still photographers, you don't have to worry about getting a $2.000 lens that produces extra sharp images. In fact, you want a lens that draws a bit soft.

- Jonas

borrowed one to try this week. cant wait!

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[Blue] SI 2k "Godzilla" SI 2k mini "Mothra" [green] Canon Mk II 5d "Mechazilla" Canon 550d "Gamera"
www.blastandboom.com low cost high end HD cameras.

After 4+yrs of waiting and debating and procrastinating i've finally bought a camera! The T2i. Thanks for all the info everyone has shared on this forum. I look forward to sharing my films here.

God Bless,
George

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God bless you and your films