Question on Stu's method for wire pull gag blood effects?

Finally got a chance to watch the sprayer one as well great stuff! Your talent wasn't to hard on the eyes either!

Great work!

What kind of wire are you using? I can't seem to find it anywhere in the forums.

Sorry. Will post more pics later. Here is a link to what I used:

Fireline Fishing line.

The line I used in the tutorial was SMOKE colored (black), and is pretty thick and strong in person, but as you can see (or not see), it is completely invisible in the video. The line is 30lb test. And for clarity, the line was simply held taught, and then yanked at time of "impact".

I bought the line at Walmart for about $13 for the spool, but I cannot find the fishing line on the Walmart website.

Last edited by Gage on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:24 am; edited 1 time in total

We did a shoot this last weekend for our horror movie and needed a bloody campground. We used GageFX's cocoa blood and if you haven't tried it yet, it's great!
We had blood on rocks, logs, ice chests, dirt, grass and latex guts and body parts. Very, very convincing. It looked so good that we were a little worried about what a hassle it would be if a ranger or fire marshal showed up. Great blood. If you're skeptical just make a small batch up. It's very good. If we'd had pancakes I would have put some on them too, it tastes great!

_________________
Joe
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Spill the Blood!!!

Very cool Joe.

We did a scene in a back alley a number of months ago. Two guys dying of multiple gun shots, both laying in growing (pumped) pools of blood, and we finished at about 2am so we didnt clean up that night. The ground was beautiful. There would be now way for someone to look at that and not think at least one person had been murdered there the night before. Rolling Eyes

Last edited by Gage on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:24 am; edited 1 time in total

I'll see if I can get Jeremy (darkfiend) to post some clips.

Your back alley story is cool. I worked fx on a zombie short recently and there was a scene in the public parking garage here that involved arterial sprays and due to the lack of proper permits we got our shots and then got out. We left blood behind and I was quite amused as I went to bed that night thinking about what people would think when they saw it. Twisted Evil

And now.... Back onto topic!

I've come up with an idea for the wire pull blood gag that I'm going to test out. It involves a home made latex blood pouch that while it is a little more involved than using a condom I think will be much easier to mount on the actor. I'll test it out and post a tutorial if it works.

_________________
Joe
-----------------------------
Spill the Blood!!!

	joe_momma wrote:
	I've come up with an idea for the wire pull blood gag that I'm going to test out. It involves a home made latex blood pouch that while it is a little more involved than using a condom I think will be much easier to mount on the actor. I'll test it out and post a tutorial if it works.

Interesting. Please make sure you get that BTS footage. That's my biggest problem. When it comes time to cover the shooting with either a BTS vidcam or with production stills, I just dont have the extra arms/hands. Of course I have a good friend who is a production photog for some big TV series, shooting for me is the last thing he wants to do on his day off.

Funny how you can get friends to do almost anything, except the one thing they are best at. If I asked him to scale a 300 ft shear rockface he's be like "uh...I've never done it, and I'll probably kill myself, but I've got some time free." Ask him to do what he does best and it's "No. I do that all week. You think I want to do that for YOU this weekend? No."

Thanks!!

I'll see if I have any of that alley footage with me. (Who doesnt carry a 750G HDD around as they go about their day?)

Last edited by Gage on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:25 am; edited 1 time in total

GageFX wrote:

	joe_momma wrote:
	I've come up with an idea for the wire pull blood gag that I'm going to test out. It involves a home made latex blood pouch that while it is a little more involved than using a condom I think will be much easier to mount on the actor. I'll test it out and post a tutorial if it works.

Interesting. Please make sure you get that BTS footage. That's my biggest problem. When it comes time to cover the shooting with either a BTS vidcam or with production stills, I just dont have the extra arms/hands. Of course I have a good friend who is a production photog for some big TV series, shooting for me is the last thing he wants to do on his day off.

Funny how you can get friends to do almost anything, except the one thing they are best at. If I asked him to scale a 300 ft shear rockface he's be like "uh...I've never done it, and I'll probably kill myself, but I've got some time free." Ask him to do what he does best and it's "No. I do that all week. You think I want to do that for YOU this weekend? No."

Thanks!!

I'll see if I have any of that alley footage with me. (Who doesnt carry a 750G HDD around as they go about their day?)

-GageFX

Sorry to say I completely understand how your friend feels. My 'real' job as a proffessional computer geek gives me no end to frustration in my personal life. Someone always needs help with their computer. I had a girlfriend who's aunt was constantly calling me, wanting me to fix her PC. I finally had enough of it and I asked her "How often do I call your husband and ask him to drive a truck for me on the weekend?" (he's a trucker) she was pissed, didn't talk to me for a month and when she did she actually apologized and said I was right.

If you need his help perhaps try to find a way to deal for his time, a trading of services or something. Doing ones job for free can be frustrating.

_________________
Joe
-----------------------------
Spill the Blood!!!

I completely agree with all this. As a visual fx artist, every single one of my filmmaker friends assumes I will happily devote all my free time to doing fx for them for free on their shorts. It is very, very hard to make them understand that no, I will not do that anymore. I did it alot when I was first getting started, for experience, but now, I value my free time away from computers. When they do sucker me into doing something lately, my heart isn't in it at all and it comes through in the work.

edit - I should mention that I actually tell them I'm not going to be that enthused to do it, and that chances are it's not going to be my absolute best work. They don't ever care. Which, to me seems odd. If I make a short, I'm the one person one the production who I know is going to be putting in 200%. If I was trying to get someone to help with a certain part and they told me "I don't really want to do this, and me not wanting to do something greatly affects the outcome of it", I would find someone else or learn to do it myself. My friends say "That's ok, I just need something to put in there". Perhaps this is why my friends' shorts always suck - he isn't demanding things be perfect. Which, in turn, makes me want to work on his sucky shorts even less, which makes me do a worse job the next time, which makes his short suck worse... A downward spiral. Confused

Anyway, sorry to be babbling...

_________________
if it's not fun, what's the point?
www.mackdadd.com

My tutorials, if you're into that sort of thing.
http://www.mackdadd.com/html/visualfx.html

I just have to say that both of those attitudes are part of the problem. Dont get me wrong. I understand exactly where you are coming from. The problem arises when you have placed too high of a monetary value on this thing you get paid to do professionally. The fact remains that you are still a FRIEND and a RELATIVE and YOU are the one that needs to be sought out for these things.

Sure you do it all week.

Sure you look at how much you WOULD HAVE gotten paid if this was a paying job. But it's not. It's for a friend or a relative that needs a favor or help. There is no reason that they should call you only if it is not something you are an expert in.

This friend of mine. Will lug equipment, hold a boom all day, do gopher stuff, but he wont break out his camera - or even one of mine - to do what comes as second nature to him. I have to ask ANOTHER friend who is a plumber to take photos for me? Come on now.

NOW.... I ALWAYS make it reciprocal. I will always return the favor, and the person is at the top of my help list whenever they call. If I cant do it because I am busy, I'll give as much verbal advice I can or recommend someone professionally that is either very good or very affordable - whatever they need more.

People who, on the other hand, have left me hanging when they could easily help: there wont be much from my end when they come asking. Not a revenge/payback thing, but really, how much time do I have for them if they dont have it for me?

A funny side note: I asked someone on the forums in PM for a little greenscreen advice. They let me know that if I want, I can bring them in as Special Effects Supervisor and they'll take a piece of the project. Beyond that, it seems, they have no help to offer.

I love people. People make me want to stop helping others altogether.

Last edited by Gage on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:26 am; edited 1 time in total

	Quote:
	The problem arises when you have placed too high of a monetary value on this thing you get paid to do professionally.

to me, this doesn't even factor in to my decision making. I have never asked for pay from a friend, nor would I ever accept pay from a friend, no matter what my enthusiasm level for the project is. (of course, I'm only speaking for myself in all my replies. I have no idea how the majority feel or think)

	Quote:
	and YOU are the one that needs to be sought out for these things.

"needs" is a strong word to use there. Wink

There are other people who do every aspect of production, especially here in LA. It's not hard to find someone who is really dying to do some work for a short film. Sure, it may be hard to find someone who will follow through and do a great job, but that's how they found me originally, so it's not impossible. I was just at a different point in my life, and now I have different focuses for my free time.

My friends have pretty much stopped asking, they just assume I will help them. And I have a hard time saying no. I'm learning, though. Just assuming I will help without regards to my own free time and personal life is quite rude, in my opinion. And then, when I cave in, like I always do, I get the immediate "When can you have it done by? Next week?". My jaw always drops (it shouldn't by now, but it never ceases to surprise me). Now they're going to give me a difficult deadline?!

Advice, however, is different. If someone wants any kind of advice from me, ever, I will gladly give it. It never really takes much more time than a phone call. My friends call all the time for this too, and I don't mind at all. (And Gage, if you still need help with any greenscreen advice, by all means ask away! If I can help, I happily will.)

Again, this is all just based on my own personal experience. Maybe it's just my friends, I don't know. If I needed one of their help on something, I would call and ask if they would be up for helping out, and I would respect their answer, be it yes or no. My friends call me on the day of shooting or during post, and say "Hey, we have this one shot that's really hard, and the fx we rigged on set didn't work, and the make-up guy didn't show up, and blah blah blah.... I told everyone on set to just make do with what we had, and that you would fix it up later". Or, I agree to do one shot, and it ends up being 10 or 15, and I'm not told about it until they're at my house and we have a cd in my computer with all the shots on it. Crap like that.

And I LOVE LOVE LOVE using my free time for my own short movie projects! Smile

_________________
if it's not fun, what's the point?
www.mackdadd.com

My tutorials, if you're into that sort of thing.
http://www.mackdadd.com/html/visualfx.html

Wasn't trying to get your goat with my post, just giving my observation. My resistance to helping people with computer stuff does not stem from a lack of pay for this help but from attempts at being taken advantage of. I fixed the girlfriend's aunt's PC several times, it was always because of the same thing that I told her how to avoid many times, she failed to follow my sound advice, continued to have the same problem and continued to expect me to bail her out. I had a neighbor who never bothered to ask if I had the time to work on something he would just show up at my door, pc in hand, sometimes it was his and sometimes it was his cousin's friends uncles PC. To me, my free time is more precious than money and these people were trying to steal it from me. Now, my in-laws I help with their computer when they need it, they listen to what I say when I tell them how the problem occured and they don't repeat the mistake, they appreciate my help and most importantly the don't expect my help to come automatically by virtue of my relation to them. It sounds like a completely different situation than with your friend since you do return favors. Perhaps he is experiencing a little job burn out?

	Quote:
	A funny side note: I asked someone on the forums in PM for a little greenscreen advice. They let me know that if I want, I can bring them in as Special Effects Supervisor and they'll take a piece of the project. Beyond that, it seems, they have no help to offer.

Now that is a little strange. I look at forums as a place for the free exchange of information and ideas. Is that common among visual effects people? I know I've never known of a practical effects person who wasn't very generous with information. (yourself included)

Anyhow, hope you don't think I'm some kind of mercenary bastard or something. It's just that there are many, many reasons why people say no.

_________________
Joe
-----------------------------
Spill the Blood!!!

... Last edited by Gage on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:28 am; edited 1 time in total

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Last edited by Gage on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:28 am; edited 1 time in total

for the record, i haven't taken anything you've said as attacks. Very Happy

And I would never want anyone to respond with anything less than their "thoughts, feelings, and beliefs". And thank you for doing so! Very Happy

And, dude, that totally sucks about what's happening with your movie! I do wish there was something I could do to help, especially being in the same town as you. It is completely unfair and downright rude that the people who own your promised location would do that after stringing you along! And I wholeheartedly agree with your decision about your lead actress! As much as it wrecks everything, I agree that you are doing the right thing. I really, truly hope there's some way to keep your project afloat, even if it means creating a short out of the footage rather than a feature (even though, if I recall correctly, you don't have much of an interest in making shorts. didn't I read that somewhere?). Reshooting the whole thing from the beginning sounds... extreme.

	Quote:
	I have no PHucking idea what I'm doing.

hahahaa... me neither, but I'm having fun anyway! Smile

And please, please, if you have any visual effects questions, just PM me. I swear I know what I'm talking about ( http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0448332/ )

And who knows, if the shot's not a two-weeker, maybe I'd just do it...

_________________
if it's not fun, what's the point?
www.mackdadd.com

My tutorials, if you're into that sort of thing.
http://www.mackdadd.com/html/visualfx.html

Several things -

First, I take the same attitude about helping people that I take about lending money. I someone asks me to lend then money and I decide to do it, (which isn't always - depends on the person and the situation) I mentally kiss the money goodbye. I don't want to have to worry about trying to get it back or hassling the person I lent it to. Generally, I get it back. When i don't I doon;t worry about it - but I also never lend that person money again.

Same with help. If I decide to help, I give it everything - just like a real paying job. If I'm not prepared to do that, I don't take the job. Usually I find there's a pretty good karmic thing that goes down and it all comes back in the end. As my father-in-law used to say, "The world is round."

Having said all that, GageFX, if there's anything I can do to help you out, let me know. I don't look remotely like a 17-year-old girl, but I cut, do motion graphics, compositing and some vfx. Also, before you give up on those locations, have you considered shooting plates of the locations and doing the action on greenscreen and comping it all together? Breaks my heart to think of all the work you've been doing going to waste.

Arthur