Question on digital video training in San Francisco Bay Area

I have been looking for a place to take hands-on classes in digital film making in the San Francisco Bay Area. What I would like to learn first is digital camera operations and post production editing using a popular software such as After Effects. I will take other classes as time and budget allow me later on. I do not intend to register in any formal film school be it 2 years or 4 years.

What I think will help me, is a place where I can learn at my own pace taking weekend or late night classes.
The only place that I have found so far is the Bay Area Video Coalition http://www.bavc.org/ . I was wondering if
there are any other training centers or support groups that provide training or mentoring. Any and all information will be helpful.
By the way, I live in the South Bay and I have been reading Stu's book and another book as preparation.

Thank you,
Sam T.

go rebel. cut out the institution. spend your money on a cheap(decent) cam and a cheap(decent)puter/warez setup, and learn by doing.
/ $.02

Hi, Sam,

I'm afraid I have to disagree with Jegonz on a couple of things. While it's not for everyone, taking a class can be a great way to get started for someone with little or no experience, especially if you are someone who needs the structured approach to learning. (Not film school, but a BAVC class or 2 could really speed the learning curve as well as let you make some contacts with other interested persons.) It can also let you get your hands on more or better equipment than you can afford yourself. After you have some of the basics in place, you can start working and learning more on your own.

Second, I highly disagree with his suggestion of using "warez", or software you pirate from a friend or the web. If you are using it to learn and purchase the software after a short time, that is one thing, but I know too many folks who got into the warez market with such an intention and then never buy the software. THIS IS STEALING. (I am not referring to "learning editions", donation-ware, or freeware.) This is just as illegal as, say, walking out of Borders with a copy of the Rebels Guide hidden in your backpack. And if you ever produce something good enough to sell only to see it on a torrent site a week later, you understand where I am coming from. (Sorry, this is touchy subject for me.)

Last word from me: Get the GUIDE. Use it. Take a class if you need to, but get out there and make something. And most of all, have fun!

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Jamie
www.crashandannie.com

oh, i do not advocate theft in any way, i meant to say "trial" versions. you know, to see if it is something you really want to get into before spending lots o cash.

Hi, Jegonz,

Now that is a philosophy I agree with 100%!

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Jamie
www.crashandannie.com

When I was ready to start learning After Effects, I discovered a single-day class for $450. The purpose of this class, as far as I could tell from the promo material, was to introduce the user interface and get started with the simplest, most basic techniques. I declined to take this class.

Then I discovered the Chris and Trish Meyer books, which, for a total of $150 (for three), explained everything I'd be likely to use in AE, with countless color photos. Those books were on my lap a lot as I dove in to create effects and solve problems.

Learning how to learn from books is an essential Reb skill. There is so much published teaching material, that you're bound to find books that work for you (if the Meyer's books don't). After all, you're probably here because you discovered the DVRG.

Don't forget that you're a business -- you are, aren't you? -- and that qualifies you for a 20% discount on everything except periodicals at Borders or Barnes&Noble.

Read and learn, experiment and learn, save your money for important things -- like production, for instance. If you set out to make even a 20 minute movie, and do it all from conception to completion, you'll get more education than at least one year of film school. Go for it.

-- Paul

A lot really depends on your learning style.

I have no problem getting the info I need out of books or online. My wife, on the other hand, does much better in a formal learning environment. She's smart, she reads books, but she needs the externally imposed disciple of a classroom environment to do the work. Only you know your own learning style.

BAVC is a good organization. I've heard their classes are good, and they also have various services and equipment rentals as I recall for members. Additionally, if you're new to all this and aren't part of a film making circle (i.e., friends, colleagues, etc.) then BAVC is a good way to introduce yourself into the Bay Area film making community.

Arthur

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sockstories.blip.tv

I have a couple of recommendations for you.

The first is Mark Christiansen's book, AE CS4 Studio Techniques. There is no better book AE book for aspiring filmmakers and VFX artists.

The second is fxphd. Mark teaches AE classes there, and there was a DV Rebel course, and the Atila the Hun guy had an amazing class about how h used AE to do all his own VFX for a BBC feature film.

-Stu

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The DV Rebel's Guide

Thank you all for helpful comments, information and book suggestions. I agree that one can not learn film making from a class alone. The idea of taking a handful of classes was to get the fundamentals down and out of the way in a short period of time and then get on with the film making itself.

Thanks Stu for answering my question. The idea of long distance learning is something I never considered.

Regards,
Sam T.

Also, remember that the "learning" for working in Hollywood is not done in a classroom, nor is it in making your own films, but it is by working IN the industry. While students may graduate film school and CALL themselves "Cinematographer", in Hollywood that position starts a number of years earlier as either a PA, camera crew PA, or if you're lucky, as a LOADER. You then work with crews that have experience and know what they are doing in more of an APPRENTICE/MENTOR sort of situation. You then either move up in that same camera crew, or you break off as the 1st becomes OP or as the OP becomes DP and starts his own crew. It is HERE that you REALLY learn. Not Gumping around on your own - you'll learn a bit there - more, I think, than in film school, but at the end of the day, if you dont know the RIGHT way, then you may just be honing your skills at going about it WRONG. But when you have a mentor that you can directly WATCH and QUESTION and FOLLOW and LEARN from in an ACTUAL WORKING ENVIRONMENT, that is where your greatest learning will come from. Books are nice and contain plenty of needed information. School is a bit more of the same, just with people explaining it, but it's out there WORKING under SKILLED and TALENTED people that you will learn the most.

My 2 cents.

If you know what you want to do, try to get on a film in that dept. If you dont know yet, get on a film as a PA. Keep your eyes open, work hard and meet and network with EVERYONE. You'll start to figure out what area you like best.

Gage wrote:

Also, remember that the "learning" for working in Hollywood is not done in a classroom, nor is it in making your own films, but it is by working IN the industry. While students may graduate film school and CALL themselves "Cinematographer", in Hollywood that position starts a number of years earlier as either a PA, camera crew PA, or if you're lucky, as a LOADER. You then work with crews that have experience and know what they are doing in more of an APPRENTICE/MENTOR sort of situation. You then either move up in that same camera crew, or you break off as the 1st becomes OP or as the OP becomes DP and starts his own crew. It is HERE that you REALLY learn. Not Gumping around on your own - you'll learn a bit there - more, I think, than in film school, but at the end of the day, if you dont know the RIGHT way, then you may just be honing your skills at going about it WRONG. But when you have a mentor that you can directly WATCH and QUESTION and FOLLOW and LEARN from in an ACTUAL WORKING ENVIRONMENT, that is where your greatest learning will come from. Books are nice and contain plenty of needed information. School is a bit more of the same, just with people explaining it, but it's out there WORKING under SKILLED and TALENTED people that you will learn the most.

My 2 cents.

If you know what you want to do, try to get on a film in that dept. If you dont know yet, get on a film as a PA. Keep your eyes open, work hard and meet and network with EVERYONE. You'll start to figure out what area you like best.

Gage, thanks for taking the time to answer my question in detail. I do not make my living from movies and getting involved full time in movie making is something in the future. At this point I am educating myself (time permitting) in the three areas that I consider critical. The first is screenwriting, the second is camera operations and the third is editing.

You make excellent points in your post. The best way to learn is to learn from the people who actually make their living day in and day out making movies. I think the books that I already have plus some hands on training on these three critical areas should give me the initial training that I need. It is really the old chicken and egg kind of situation. You can not be working as an apprentice if you have absolutely no training and you can not get real world training if you have not somehow trained yourself by going to some form of film school like a vocational, 2 year or 4 year college.

Thanks,
SamT

	Quote:
	It is really the old chicken and egg kind of situation. You can not be working as an apprentice if you have absolutely no training and you can not get real world training if you have not somehow trained yourself by going to some form of film school like a vocational, 2 year or 4 year college.

Not true Sam.

If you go to film school for 2-4 years, or if you just go get a job in the industry with no school, you will start as a PA. It's the way it works. You dont go to film school and come out a DP, Director, Producer, or anything else. You come out as a guy that went to film school, and that and $3 will get you a coffee. I know this firsthand. I know this from growing up in Hollywood and the studios along with my friends. My LA friends went into the industry without film school. It's the people that transplant from elsewhere that end up at film school. All of my current group of friends are all from out of town, all film school graduates and all got to deeper - in most cases they didnt get very deep at all - into the film crews. Most of them either gave up and got a low pay 9-5 at a dub house or post house, the rest gave up and found other jobs outside the industry or are now doing their own low budget rebel stuff and getting nowhere.

With film school, or without, you start as a PA. A low pay entry level position. Where you go from there and how quickly depends on your aptitude for learning combined with busting your ass to show you're a worker.

There are no short cuts. Skipping school isnt a shortcut and going to school isnt a shortcut. School is just a delay in the inevitable.

There are two entry level positions in Hollywood. PA and director.

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Pontificatious Ramblings

Actually, you forgot one - Executive Producer.

Very Happy

Arthur

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sockstories.blip.tv

LOL. You got me there. Laughing